Discussion:
[core] Review of draft-silverajan-core-coap-protocol-negotiation
JinHyeock Choi
2018-03-13 11:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Bill
- OCF uses a similar link attribute called “eps”.
The idea was to align "ol" with OCF's "eps"
so that per-resource alternate locations can also be supported.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/materials/slides-99-core-consolidated-slides
/

good that "ol" & "eps" would be aligned. They are almost equivalent.
For example,

ol=http://[FDFD::123]:61616, coap://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683

corresponds to

"eps": [
{"ep": "http://[FDFD::123]:61616"},
{"ep": "coaps://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683"}
]

There still exisit some differences
(e.g., URI in "ep" shall have IP address in its authority.),
which, I hope, we would discuss in joint meeting next FRI.

best regards

JinHyeock
Hi Jaime,
Dear authors,
I had some time to review
draft-silverajan-core-coap-protocol-negotiation-07, below is the feedback.
- have you thought about using this mechanism as a NAT traversal tool?
It potentially can, if the RD is reachable by both client and server, and
there is some sort of keep-alive mechanism at the NAT. There was also a
discussion about a potential "coap+at", or an "all-transports" happy
eyeballs approach based on Thin ICE which might also help.
- what happens if any of the context on “at” is different than the one
used to register the endpoint.
If you're referring to the usage of "at" to the use of "con", it's
specifically because we wanted to avoid overloading the semantics of "con",
which can be used by commissioning tools. So, you can have both parameters
present.
- is the lifetime of the registration also carried to the other transport
(is the ep being registered on both transports)?
In short, yes. We thought of introducing lifetime per transport but it
turned out to make it more complicated. The current approach allows the
server to update the "at" list every time it sends a registration update on
RD. This way, transports discovered from RD are always available.
- are security associations between client and server reset when switching
transport?
Currently, yes. There are no session resumption/information exchanged
between transports defined yet.
- I think the lookup example could benefit from a more complex lookup, for
instance using “rt” or “et” with “tt”.
That's a good idea and we introduced that now in version -08
- I’m not sure about this but wouldn’t this force to mandate specific CoAP
ports per transport?
Yes they should be standard, but the idea was also to show non-standard
ports as there will always be endpoints exposing transports on different
ports than the standard ones
- How large can the payload get? How many alternative transports are
there? Can’t we assume that we keep the scheme and simply answer with the
transport supported?
We can't do that all the time and elide the authority. For example
supporting sms, you'd have a different authority. There could also be many
alternative transports available, e.g. exposing on different ports.
- typo: availabilty
Thanks, fixed.
- this option, with no comment to how the context should be the same can
redirect a client to another server, right? Is that what we want?
Not necessarily to another server but to another location, could be hosted
on the same server. Obviously, if the authority changes, the security
considerations for these kinds of alternate endpoints (that OCF also
proposed) should be looked at more carefully.
- OCF uses a similar link attribute called “eps”.
The idea was to align "ol" with OCF's "eps" so that per-resource alternate
locations can also be supported. This came from Dave's slides in IETF 99.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/materials/slides-99-core-consolidated-slides/
- there should at least exist an informative ref to core-link format.
I missed this comment for -08, sorry. Will be added for -09.
The security considerations part will require quite a bit of work.
Particularly for alternate locations, agree on this.
Implications on ETCH?
Did you mean using FETCH to request for alternate locations? That would
work as a substitute for the Alternative-transports Option, if we can
devise a CoRE link that can express alternate transport endpoints on a
server.
This draft is intended as informational, however at some point we should
have some normative text too for implementors, right?
That would be great. Also for some feedback from implementers!
Best regards,
Bill
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Bill Silverajan
2018-03-15 08:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Hello JinHyeock,

Thanks for your comments!
Post by JinHyeock Choi
good that "ol" & "eps" would be aligned. They are almost equivalent.
For example,
    ol=http://[FDFD::123]:61616, coap://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683
corresponds to
    "eps": [
      {"ep": "http://[FDFD::123]:61616"},
      {"ep": "coaps://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683"}
    ]
That is good. Going forward, the mapping would become easier: We've
defined "ol" to be repeatable instead of a comma separated list of base
URIs. For example,
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-silverajan-core-coap-protocol-negotiation-08#section-6.1
Post by JinHyeock Choi
There still exisit some differences
(e.g., URI in "ep" shall have IP address in its authority.),
which, I hope, we would discuss in joint meeting next FRI.
If you are participating in IETF 101, we can also arrange a corridor
discussion around this topic. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts
here too.

Best regards,
Bill
JinHyeock Choi
2018-03-16 01:03:31 UTC
Permalink
Bill
Post by JinHyeock Choi
ol=http://[FDFD::123]:61616, coap://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683
corresponds to
"eps": [
{"ep": "http://[FDFD::123]:61616"},
{"ep": "coaps://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683"}
]
That is good. Going forward, the mapping would become easier: We've defined
"ol" to be repeatable instead of a comma separated list of base URIs. For
example,
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-silverajan-core-coap-protocol-negotiation-08#section-6.1
thanks for the clarification. I mistakenly referred the examples from v08.
Post by JinHyeock Choi
There still exisit some differences
(e.g., URI in "ep" shall have IP address in its authority.),
which, I hope, we would discuss in joint meeting next FRI.
If you are participating in IETF 101, we can also arrange a corridor
discussion around this topic. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts
here too.
Unfortunately IETF 101 conflicts with OCF meeting in Prague.
However FRI afternoon, we will have a T2TRG/ OCF/ WoT joint meeting there,
https://github.com/t2trg/2018-03-ocf-wot
so your participation would be much appreciated.

best regards

JinHyeock
Jaime Jiménez
2018-03-19 10:50:10 UTC
Permalink
Hi JinHyeock, hi T2TRG chairs,

would it be possible for you to share in this thread the remote participation details of the T2TRG/ OCF/ WoT join meeting?

Thanks!
- - Jaime Jiménez
Post by JinHyeock Choi
Bill
Post by JinHyeock Choi
ol=http://[FDFD::123]:61616, coap://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683
corresponds to
"eps": [
{"ep": "http://[FDFD::123]:61616"},
{"ep": "coaps://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683"}
]
That is good. Going forward, the mapping would become easier: We've defined
"ol" to be repeatable instead of a comma separated list of base URIs. For
example,
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-silverajan-core-coap-protocol-negotiation-08#section-6.1
thanks for the clarification. I mistakenly referred the examples from v08.
Post by JinHyeock Choi
There still exisit some differences
(e.g., URI in "ep" shall have IP address in its authority.),
which, I hope, we would discuss in joint meeting next FRI.
If you are participating in IETF 101, we can also arrange a corridor
discussion around this topic. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts
here too.
Unfortunately IETF 101 conflicts with OCF meeting in Prague.
However FRI afternoon, we will have a T2TRG/ OCF/ WoT joint meeting there,
https://github.com/t2trg/2018-03-ocf-wot
so your participation would be much appreciated.
best regards
JinHyeock
Ari Keränen
2018-03-19 15:40:37 UTC
Permalink
The remote participation details are now available in the meeting github page:
https://github.com/t2trg/2018-03-ocf-wot


Cheers,
Ari
Post by Jaime Jiménez
Hi JinHyeock, hi T2TRG chairs,
would it be possible for you to share in this thread the remote participation details of the T2TRG/ OCF/ WoT join meeting?
Thanks!
- - Jaime Jiménez
Post by JinHyeock Choi
Bill
Post by JinHyeock Choi
ol=http://[FDFD::123]:61616, coap://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683
corresponds to
"eps": [
{"ep": "http://[FDFD::123]:61616"},
{"ep": "coaps://[2001:db8:f1::2]:5683"}
]
That is good. Going forward, the mapping would become easier: We've defined
"ol" to be repeatable instead of a comma separated list of base URIs. For
example,
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-silverajan-core-coap-protocol-negotiation-08#section-6.1
thanks for the clarification. I mistakenly referred the examples from v08.
Post by JinHyeock Choi
There still exisit some differences
(e.g., URI in "ep" shall have IP address in its authority.),
which, I hope, we would discuss in joint meeting next FRI.
If you are participating in IETF 101, we can also arrange a corridor
discussion around this topic. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts
here too.
Unfortunately IETF 101 conflicts with OCF meeting in Prague.
However FRI afternoon, we will have a T2TRG/ OCF/ WoT joint meeting there,
https://github.com/t2trg/2018-03-ocf-wot
so your participation would be much appreciated.
best regards
JinHyeock
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